A review, by Hunter.

The other weekend when we went rummaging, Hunter, the huge sports nut, found a vintage football game. Lured, no doubt, by the image of his beloved Green Bay Packers on the box lid, he had to have it.

The game was NFL All-Pro Football, an official National Football League game, made by Ideal, game # 2520-5, from 1967.

Since vintage games often do not have recommended ages listed on the boxes, I was a bit concerned this game would be too complicated and if all the original pieces were inside the box, that they’d only become ‘food’ for the vacuum or lost at the bottom of his toy bins — and though only $3, that’s a rather large sum for a a boy who usually is satisfied with 50 cent cars, baseball caps and action figures. So I did my best to caution him.

“That’s a 40 year old board game, a real collectible,” I told him. “Your daddy has one of these,” I continued, “maybe you and he could play his? Three dollars is most of your money for the day…”

But Hunter had to have it.

He then had to wait until the next day for a grown-up to help him establish if all the pieces were there, and to help him with the rules. This would be the moment of truth…

After discovering that all the pieces were there, he and Derek set about learning how to play the game. They played for about an hour and had a really good time. Here’s what Hunter had to say about the vintage All-Pro Football game.

Why did you want to buy it so badly?

Cuz it looked cool — with the football field and I like football. And it’s old.

What about the game being old is cool?

Well, you can’t just go find one anywhere. Not many people have it. My dad has one, and now I have one.

Now that you’ve played it, do you like it?

Yeah!

Was it hard to play?

A little. I was glad to have Derek help me — we helped each other, really. Then we had lots of fun.

I heard at first you were a little disappointed that the checker-like pieces didn’t have team logos on them; were you?

Yeah.

I bet I know this, but what team logo did you really want to see on the pieces most of all?

THE PACKERS!

I knew that! But now that you’ve played the game, does it bother you that the pieces aren’t marked with specific teams?

No, it’s really cool that you can pretend to be any team you want to be — at least that’s what I do when I make my own rules.

(The game rules set the team match-ups, so when Hunter was the Packers that meant Derek had to be the Vikings.)

Is there anything that you don’t like about the game?

That you can only move three spaces.

You want to move more spaces?

Yeah. But I mean it’s OK. Just when I play by myself, with my own rules, I let them move more.

What other rules have you made up?

I let my guys actually tackle. (Hunter then demonstrates one white checker tackling a red checker.) But you can mess up the game that way, so it wouldn’t really be a good way to play with others. I mean you could bump guys you didn’t mean to. Tackling is how the players play, but on the board you have to worry about the squares.

So, you really like the game then?

Oh yeah!

Because like I said, you could take this game that you bought for $3 and sell it for more and make money… I bet you could sell it for at least $10.

But I don’t have to, do I?

Oh no, I just meant that if you didn’t like it that much you could make money. Money you could spend on something else you’d like more. And I’m sure if you ask dad, he’d share his game with you.

No, I think I’m gonna keep this game my whole life.

He pauses.

You never know… I could want something else later. But I really think I want to save this one forever. It’s fun.

Deanna’s been talking a whole lot about nostalgia and it’s relationship to collecting, and recently, those talismanic toys of the 1980s. Of course, when the conversation turns to He-Man and Ninja Turtles, I’m inclined to chime in.

As one of those 80’s nostalgia kids, and being only 25, I fall directly into the retro-collectibles demographic. And I’m a sucker for it, as are a vast majority of my friends. I think that beyond even pure market value and simple nostalgia for the items themselves, we all have one thing important thing in common : we’re actively unhappy with the way the world is turning out, which is unabashedly violent and complicated and divorced from our own personal goals and ideals. Plus, no Jetsons cars, teleportation, or robots to do our bidding / make sweet love to. We were promised these things and we’ve come to collect. But mostly, my friends and I are all political subversives in our own casual ways.

As a result of the current sociopolitical climate, all of us seem to hearken back to a time when the sociopolitical concerns and the frontiers of destructive sciences were so much simpler. I’ve discussed this at length with my comrades-in-nostalgia, as well as some older generations, inquiring of them if things were in fact a lot simpler just 20 years ago, or if it was just my youthful perceptions that were coloring things so damned rosy - and while the word ’simpler’ is subjective, the response was unanimous - yes, things are more complicated now. To be incredibly general about it, some things are better, and some things are worse - but it remains complicated.

THIS, I believe more than anything else, has been affecting the insurgence of the 80’s toy market. Us children who spent their formative years concerned with Krang’s exploits in the Techodrome, or how Egon was going to ensnare the spectre du jour, or the secret adventures of Lion-O on Thundera. Us sympathetic pseudo-denizens of Tatooine. We remember these times, but it’s not only our explicit love of the TV shows and that lenticular Eye of Thundera premium rings from Burger King. The key to the appeal of these things also resides in the ambient memories, ostensibly unrelated to the objects of our nostalgia-lust. And now, we have some disposable income.

When I think of riding my bike to my friend’s house to play Astyanax on the NES, I have an organic memory of fearlessness. We were not, at that time, in a world where every week held a new announcement of an abducted child or three, and I could ride my bike unconcerned. The ozone layer wasn’t quite so thin, employment wasn’t quite so difficult and the cost of living wasn’t quite so high. These shiny, flashing, plastic things existed, and are charming by their own virtues - but they also are representative of a better time, not just a cartoon show.

I’m certain that ‘better’ is also an arguable adjective, but I can tell you that my young, restless comrades and I can usually be temporarily sated by a boxful of Ninja Turtles - and even in the middle of our social and emotional unrest, it’s tangible proof that things can be simpler, and things can get back on the right track, and in a general sense, that spells out hope. And that’s where ‘collecting’ comes in - our senses reconnecting with something physical, and the need to consume it in quantity. Maybe Muppet Babies was a really stupid show - I don’t honestly remember, but I do remember watching it every Saturday while eating biscuits and bacon, and then playing in the yard and building lizard cages on the back porch. Buying a Muppet Babies DVD will never be the equivalent of being back in those times, feeling the same things, thinking the same magical thoughts, having all of your hair back and not regretting that skeevy girl you hooked up with in college, and that’s probably why I’m always looking for the next fleeting connection to the ‘better’ times. Each small memory is brief and powerful, but they fade in a modern context.

Deanna’s answer on ‘whether or not to sell your 80s toys now’ was more than complete, but as someone who is both actively buying and selling relics from my 1980s childhood, I can tell you that my personal attraction waxes and wanes. The happier I am with how my life is moving forward, the less I have the need to nest myself in regression. In the many, many times when I find myself floundering in depression, I built up a fort of NES games and couch cushions around me and shut out the scary world. So are us children of the 80s who actively collect these things just a gathering of malcontents?

Maybe, but we’re not dangerous.

It can be really frustrating when you meet someone who has equal prowess and you run into them over and over again. My ‘relationship’ with my red-headed nemesis began over 12 years ago. We were waiting in line at 7:15 for the start of a garage sale. Several other hunters were there as well and the red-head made small talk with them. She then turned to me and asked what it was that I collected. Being a bit naïve, I expressed my love for glassware and old pottery. Before we could talk further, the garage door lifted and we were off! I’ve always likened the sound of an automatic door to a pistol shot at a foot race.

My first object of desire was a tall, glass vase. I reached for it but found that another hand was already on it. It was in the grasp of the red-head! I quickly turned to check out a Weller vase, grabbed for it but got only thin air. Same thing, red was holding it. I was able to find a few trinkets, but not like the two lost treasures. I know, I know, this happens to all of us. But the kicker was when we were checking out. She was directly ahead of me in line. After she paid, she turned to me and with a very sweet smile said

“better luck next time.” Let the games begin!

It was just a few weeks later that I was in a closed up, very hot attic, sweat running down my face. My “Newman” came in, all fresh and cheery. (By this time I had told anyone who would listen about my encounter and had nicknamed her after the postal worker guy on Seinfeld. Whenever Jerry ran into him, he’d clench his teeth and grunt “Newman.”)

I had just opened a box of old records, many of them damaged or broken. Newman smiled and said “hi dear” to me. The lady running the sale said “if you and your friend like records, then check these out.” She brought out a box of records, and even from my position on the floor, I could see they were quality. She took them with her of course. I heard through the grape vine that there were some prized ones from an early jazz record company called Paramount and she sold them for a pretty penny.

Another month passed and we ran into each other again. This was at an estate sale and I was chatting with a man I knew from my childhood. Newman smiled and said hi – then numbers were called and we went into the sale. I grabbed 4-5 items right away and asked the lady at the check-out table to hold them for me. One was a gorgeous carnival glass bowl. After 20 minutes, I went to check out and was shocked to see the lady wrapping Newman’s treasures – one was MY carnival glass bowl! I blurted out – I had that on hold – but the clerk did not recall my request. But then my friend from childhood said “she’s right – I saw her bring that up.” Newman’s money was refunded and the prize was mine. Of course, I just smiled sweetly.
This back and forth winning/losing game continued for years. Newman definitely had more in the Wins column! Until last week. We had a large rummage sale with some family members. Some pretty neat stuff. One of the first to show up was Newman. She scooped up a lot of items, never looking up long enough to see who held the sale. I watched her moving, examining, discarding, or keeping and finally strutting over to our check-out table. Her ever-present-always-charming smile faded when she saw me there. She rather meekly asked if I could do any better on the prices. I agreed to an ever-so-slight discount for a ‘fellow rummager.’ The bargaining shoe was on the other foot – Jerry won!

On Sunday I posted Nostalgia Often Drives The Collectibles Market, to which dinocollector posted the following comment:

But my question is will generations of collectibles continue to increase in value or will they peak at some point? Obviously they will peak and decline when people of that generation start dying, but will they peak well before that? I still have most of my toys from the 1980s and I plan to sell them eventually, but when should I sell them? Most children of the 80s have jobs now so they can afford to buy back their toys. Should I continue to hold on to them or will there be a point when all of the 80s kids who want nostalgic toys acquire them so the demand goes down?

While I don’t pretend to know the precise answers (and I would be very skeptical of any who declared they held the answer), I have a few thoughts on the subject.

(Most of this is true of any area in collectible, so if you’ve been wondering when to sell off your collection to make a killing, read on and see just some of what the factors in the collectible market are.)

Not everyone who had these 80’s toys will want them ‘back’ — or at least not yet. Those 80’s kids are not even 30 years old yet, and, speaking as someone who has been-there-done-that, pre-30’s means you may not have the desire to once-again pick-up your old childish things, and, even if you do, you may not have the place to put them. If you’re still in college, just starting your career or a family, you may not have the money to spend on collectibles either.

Another factor in considering when it will be a hot time to sell retro 80’s toys is the matter of money. Most collectors do not have unlimited wealth; adding to collections is based upon the available discretionary income. So it’s not only the matter of the age of the collector as it pertains to employment status and career wages, but the economy as well. When times are tough, the purse-strings can tighten on collectibles purchases.

The appeal of these toys is not just limited to just those who were kids in the 80’s. For example, those who were too old to play with action figures but were fans of the films may covet Star Wars items. And there are also those too young to have seen the films when they were first released, but who deem the series to be a favorite. Or they assign other reasons to their collections. Each of these groups also has the same considerations noted above as well.

Guessing just who wants the toys from the 80’s, when they’ll want them, and when the income they’re making allows them to go hog-wild buying back their childhood, well, it’s just that — a guess. Sure, some marketing folks somewhere are busy trying to figure out these demographics, running the numbers on the percentages and comparing them to other market trends, but even if that’s a science, there’s more.

Other factors in the appeal of 80’s toys include, but are not limited to, changes in the life of the category.

Some things which will increase the value of 80’s toys are:

As most 80’s toys were media tie-ins, new films or works being released will revive interest in the older items too.

Losses in terms of deaths of creators, actors, writers, etc. as well as catastrophic losses such as fire destroying original items being stored.

The creation and success of related works, such as when new science fiction films are released which are credited to or inspired by the genius of Star Wars, Star Wars items will increase in popularity.

Some things which will decrease the interest in this category are:

The popularity of any other pop culture phenomenon (people spending their money on tech gadgets, for example).

The rise in popularity of other collectible categories. How many of those children who grew up in the 80’s are busy collecting Harry Potter items with their own kids rather than buying back the toys from the 80’s? Or maybe you’ve grown from Cabbage Patch kids to Marie Osmond dolls — and are headed to antique dolls?

Remaking or remarketing classic 80’s toys to new generations can both increase and decrease the interest in toys — they receive mixed reactions.

Many in the world of collecting have discussed the changes in collecting brought on by the Internet and online selling venues like eBay.

With the ability to sell online & the ensuing press coverage given to stories of the wealth hidden in your closet, many people are not disposing of the junk in their closets like they once used to do. Those boxes which mom and dad have saved for you and told you to come pick up now that you have your first home (or your own place has more storage than theirs does), are less likely to be picked-up and driven directly to the local thrift shop as a donation. With all the extra toys saved, and many of them listed for sale, the number of toys available keeps the prices lower.

Ahh, but then the questions become… How long will ‘everybody’ hold onto this stuff before they decide to clear out the clutter before a move? How long until part-time sellers tire of this and dump the stuff?

Eventually there will be a point when the price peaks, at least in your lifetime. It’s sad to admit, but true, that many collectibles are tied to generations and so when their incomes become fixed or they pass away, the interest in these collectibles wanes and the prices drop.

But in nearly every case, the interest will likely become reborn as younger folks remember ‘the classics’ or re-discover the genre again for some reason or another. Again, it could be a new film which sets-off a whole cultural reaction, or it could be individuals who remember those toys from old photos of grandpa, or a love of your childhood cars leads to a lifelong love of Matchbox collecting. It could even be that those lowered prices which ignites new interest. Who can tell?

Which just goes to prove that collecting is a lot like gambling. It’s not just about the money, it’s about loving the game.

The collectibles industry is huge and that will likely never change. But what drives the industry is buyers, and while their passions may change as far as what they’re collecting, they’ll likely always be collecting something.

Pinning down what they’ll buy and when? Well, that’s a guessing game.

I was reading Don’t count on old bikes selling high by Lynn Hopper, and one passage really stuck out:

Nothing else drives the antiques and collectibles market like nostalgia, and as collectors mature, the nostalgia moves up, datewise.

It’s something I’ve long noticed, but never really took the time to mention — at least not so succinctly.

Saturday the family went rummaging — three generations of our family. There were my parents, Derek and I, and our three kids. My parents were looking more for antiques, while Derek and I look for more vintage and retro items. (The kids just look for stuff they recognize — they have no real sense of nostalgia past the last decade.)

I agree that nostalgia plays a large part of our hunting. If we’re talking bikes, it would be my folks who would remember those classic bikes from the 40’s and 50’s as part of their childhoods. And true antique bikes would be something they remember as well, even if it was their grandpa’s bike or old family photos with bicycles in them. Me, I’m completely smitten with those 70’s banana seat bikes because I’d want ‘my old bike back’ — however, as I haven’t found one I can both afford and actually ride, I have a classic 1940’s bike because it still feels vaguely familiar (I can remember one of the oddest teachers at school who rode to work on his most of the year). To the kids, these are just all old junky bikes. lol

In other areas of collecting and hunting the same is true.

For example, I used to be able to go to the local charity thrift shops and buy retro Scooby-Doo books for a quarter and sell them on eBay for $20 or more. Mom’s jaw would drop when I told her of the sale. While I remember my ‘old’ love of Scooby, mom doesn’t have that connection. Not only does she likely still just see these books as the junk she was always telling my sister & I to put away, her lack of love means she doesn’t see how many others who also want their Scooby stuff back.

As sellers of antiques and collectibles, naturally we are most drawn to the things which excite us. This means my folks deal more, have a higher percentage of their inventory, in antiques than Derek and I ever have. And all of this means we are more knowledgeable in specific areas or periods. Our sense of nostalgia comes from the items being familiar. We are more excited when we see those objects, so we collect them or invest in them to re-sell — either way we buy them. Because we are buying these objects more often, we become better acquainted with them as far as history, condition, how common or rare they are, etc. This means we become more familiar with the objects in ways which go past just remembering our past. It’s a not-so-vicious cycle.

When Derek and I had a booth in one of the local antique malls our booth really stood out from the other dealers’ booths. Of course we had many true antiques, but the bulk of our wares were vintage and retro items. While this was great when the college kids and younger shoppers came in, for they made bee-lines to our booth and loved looking at everything there, we quickly discovered that in our area at least, the majority of these shoppers were just that — shoppers, not buyers. So after a year, we left the store and other than the occasional yard sale, we sell exclusively on the Internet.

Now this is not to say that younger buyers won’t spend money on vintage and retro items — this was just our experience here in Fargo (and a few years ago at that). I do know that in other locations this is not the case. In fact, when I lived in Wisconsin, we Wisconsin sellers felt we ‘made a killing’ off of those young urban Chicago folks. (Don’t feel bad, those folks still felt they were robbing ‘the Wisconsin rubes’ because our prices were so much lower than Chicago prices. It was a symbiotic relationship.) Location is a large issue in buying and selling collectibles for several reasons. Age, economics, and other trends affect sales, and just as an item’s rarity is often determined by location — breweriana is plentiful in Milwaukee and farming items are everywhere in Fargo — the smart dealer pays attention to these things. (And Derek and I haven’t stopped loving our vintage and retro goodies — we’ve just focused on presenting those goodies where those collectors are.)

If you agree with me that the age of a collector will quite often affect what category of collectible he is interested in collecting, or at least the period or age of that category, then I suggest to you another theory…

Many have claimed that eBay is responsible for the closure of many antique malls and mom and pop antique and collectible shops. Lynn Hopper did so in that article on old bikes, writing:

EBay revolutionized the world of antiques, helping many dealers, but closing down many small shops.

But I suggest to you that perhaps there is more to the story. Perhaps those dealers didn’t consider the market changes, didn’t reflect the younger buyers’ interest in newer items, by having those ‘newer’ items in their booths and on their sales floors.

When the trend-spotters and appraisers say that the market is good for arts and crafts movement pieces, that the market for Oriental rugs is decreasing, or whatever it is they are saying now, I think they should be taking into account the element of nostalgia.

Instead of saying that “mod is so hot right now” because the design style is similar to some home decor trend set by designers at Target, perhaps they should look at the ages of those designers and see that the current batch of trendy hipster designers are young folks inspired by their own sense of nostalgia. (And perhaps the designers’ success is more based on the sense of nostalgia shared with consumers than on any style sense they have themselves.)

Smart members of the collectibles industry have taken note of this. For example, both the toy and comic book markets have noted this shift, and they’re cashing in on it.

Individual dealers can do the same by looking for items which speak to younger collectors in search of ‘newer’ items and add them to the mix rather than only offering true antiques.